Part of a continuing series covering Question Period at Westmount City Council, here are our notes from the 6 Sept 2011 Council Meeting.
Q1. The questioner asked when a speed bump would be placed on Edgehill.
Council Ikeman said that the Traffic study would be coming out shortly and it would be looking at things such as speed bumps.
The mayor said that there is no point putting in stop signs etc until the study is done.
Q2. The questioner stated that the opposition to the arena – pool project was only from a few naysayers who were obstructing council and he wondered how council will address the demands and the needs of the majority.
They mayor said that there would be meetings of users of the facility. They will hear from people who will actually be using the facility. They have done this already with swimmers.
Q3. The questioner asked about the work to be done from the recommendations of the safe walk campaign which was done over a year ago now. She is worried about sidewalks which she said are in bad shape.
She pointed out that the days are starting to get shorter.
The Director General replied that work was started on the sidewalks this month and is being done within the budget allotted for sidewalks.
Councillor Samiotis said that the recommendations were being given to Genivar.
The questioner asked who has the list of sidewalks being done and could she get it.
The answer was yes.
Q4. The questioner asked what the city policy is for seedlings.
She gave a list of six points which she thought were part of the policy and asked council to say when they disagreed.
Councillor Lulham stopped the questioner and said that she would go over the points in a meeting with the questioner and give her the answers.
The questioner then asked the council another set of questions about trees.
Councillor Lulham said that she would give the questioner answers to these questions as well.
Q5. The questioner asked if the city had seen the petition about the arena-pool project.
Councillor Martin said that the petition was a faulty way to get a message across. He wondered if people were accosted on the street and to what extent they were led down the garden path. He talked about links on the petition which he said were not correct..cost of project, that dog run might be eliminated, He said that an indoor outdoor pool is impossible in eastern Canada. He felt it was giving false hope to people.
Have you determined if all signing parties are citizens of Westmount?
Some people were honest enough to put their postal code as not being residents of Westmount.
Questioner said that the press both local and otherwise are picking up this petition as if it were a valid document. Could council publish some of the falsities in the petition. He asked why we have to see delay after delay of the project because of a relatively small number of people.
He mentioned that older people play hockey unlike what naysayers are implying, that it is only young players who will use the facility.
Q6.Questioner asked about the part of Summit Circle which has been closed off. He was hoping that the area would be fixed up and a nice bike path put in.
Councillor Lulham said that Summit Woods had not been studied in the Master Park plan done by Marc Fauteux. Mr Fauteux was engaged again this summer to do Summit Woods and council is waiting for his recommendations on how to treat that area. They expect the report this fall and there will be public meetings.
Q7.Questioner asked about infrastructure problems in the area of the arena after heavy rain on Aug 1s. United Church at Lansdowne and De Maisonneuve suffered severe damage. There was emergency work done at Ste Catherine east of Lansdowne. There was flooding at Academy Road. He said that this seems to be a fairly significant problem in the area of the arena project. Is it being addressed? How will diversion of water be managed at arena pool level.
The Mayor said that the water table in the area is well below the structure to be built. Councillor Lulham said that Public Works will look at the capacity issues on Ste Catherine St and then there will be public meetings for people who live in the area.. Wonders if it is a capacity issue or damage to sewer system. She said that Lower Westmount is at the bottom of the hill. Water comes down there.
The director general said that there was no definite time frame for when information will be given.
The Director General said that a model is being done to see what the causes and constraints are in the area. It will help understand how water flows in lower Westmount.
How does it fit into work on the arena? Is there a link?
The Director General said that the city is looking at diverting the waterline and sewer line from along Academy Rd to de Maisonneuve or to Ste Catherine St. The western end of the sewer system goes under the existing arena.
Is the work started ? There is signage up there
There is an initial survey being done as to where the water line and sewer line exist.
Would like to get work done this fall before arena project starts next spring.
Councillor Martin said that it will be an entirely new sewer, not just relining of an old one.
Q8.Questioner asked if there was a report written of the city’s evaluation of the other possible sites for the arena-pool project and if there was, could he have access to it.
The mayor said that architects had looked at other sites and that they could be seen at but that it was a waste of time because the city was going ahead with the project.
The questioner asked Councillor Ikeman if Lansdowne could be made a one way street going north from Ste Catherine St. to Sherbrooke.
Councillor Ikeman said that the question of traffic within the city is being studied by experts and will see what they say. Will have their report within the next couple of months.
Q9. The questioner asked if there was documentation responding to the CURA request some time ago to do research into alternative sites for the arena pool project.
The mayor said that if there was documentation, then it would be available.
The questioner said that he would like to have it.
The mayor then asked about an article that the questioner had written for on-line La Presse. He asked if when the questioner referred to the arena, did he mean that the arena is in Westmount Park.
The questioner replied yes.
How long has the land on which the arena is built been part of Westmount Park?
The questioner said that the land had been purchased in 1910.
The mayor said that the area where the arena is and where the new arena will be is not part of Westmount Park. He said that Westmount Park was increased in size by closing off de Maisonneuve in 1985. The original idea was brought forth in 1975. The part of the park above Academy Rd was never part of Westmount park because it was divided by de Maisonneuve. Once de Maisonneuve was demolished it became part of the park. But the arena is not part of Westmount Park.
The mayor said that he zoned the whole area park. He said that where the arena is located is zoned park but it is not part of Westmount Park and never was.
The questioner said that all parks in North America have to be defended. All parks everywhere are under enormous stress.
There has been a technical solution to this dilemma and that would be to split the facility.
He said that a long time ago in this chamber he was given a dressing down and people thumped their desks. He considered it to part of the kind of tensions that we living now.
In lower Westmount where the questioner lives there is deep and profound change taking place and it is the responsibility of the city to mitigate change.
Q10. Questioner asked where the city was in the project. He felt that the city was getting a great facility for 12 million dollars when it is worth 37 million dollars. He said that he has never seen the people who are protesting the facility in the locker room.
What is the current time line for the project?
The mayor replied that it was hoped by the end of this year, if not, by early next year the bids will go out and we will start construction.
The mayor discussed the petition which is being circulated in the city for modification of the arena pool project. He discussed costs, the referendum, the effect of Selwyn House on the result of the poll. Said that the city was committed to respect the approval of citizens on the project. He said that constant denigration of the program does not help with raising money for the project. He does not like the use of the word mega-project for the arena-pool project because it is a very small increase in size of rinks and pool. Says that all rinks are NHL sized. Admits that the design process has taken far too long. Goal is same and budget has not changed. Council will not allow a misleading on-line petition to dictate to them what to do.
Q11. Questioner who said that he had played hockey from the age of three and always preferred outdoor hockey and was avid swimmer remarked that there never was a proper needs analysis done for the arena project as many candidates from the last election had promised.
For the WWCA the questioner said that the lack of active transportation and public access to the MUHC site will mean that most people will drive to the site and this will mean an increase in traffic in Westmount and run counter to the council’s wish to reduce traffic . At the August meeting the WWCA was told to ask the Director General about any progress in meetings. Mayor Trent was suppose to meet with Dr Porter. He asked if anyone had anything to report on this issue.
The Mayor said that he had met with Dr Porter and told him of the concerns mentioned by the questioner and also of the city’s concerns about the number of buildings that might be converted into ambulatory clinics.
Dr Porter said that they are lobbying Quebec city to come up with the money to increase the capacity of Vendome. The mayor could not make any comments on the buildings going up on de Maisonneuve
Dr Porter was very warm to the idea of Genivar and sitting down with them to discuss traffic.
Dr Porter said that the bicycle path had nothing to do with them. The Mayor reminded him that it would have something to do with them.
The questioner said in the preliminary plans there had been a bike path and said that how the bicycle path had disappeared now was beyond reason.
Did Dr Porter mention his contacts in Quebec City because the WWCA is going to meet with MP Jacques Chagnon and it might be helpful to know the names.
The mayor said that he could meet with M Chagnon.
Councillor Lulham mentioned a public meeting to be held on Sept 27 at 7pm at the Unitarian church concerning the MUHC with regard to transportation and housing. The public is welcome.
A neighbourhood meeting will be held Sept 13 at 5100 de Maisonneuve at 7pm.
Q12. Questioner asked for news on three issues that the WWCA had brought up in the past.
Paint Bike path lines across the Lansdowne Ste Catherine St intersection and not to eliminate the path for north bound cyclists.
The Director General said that the city will paint the lines across Ste Catherine –Lansdowne intersection in the next two weeks but the Traffic Committee has recommended not to modify the path at the top end on the east side of the path.
That is very very bad news.
Installing 5 sec straight ahead arrows along the de Maisonneuve bike path at the Wood and Greene intersections
A moratorium has been placed on all changes to traffic light system until receive report from Genivar. What is decided will probably be put in across the city.
Install pedestrian lights at Sherbrooke St and Clarke intersection.
Again, traffic committee agrees with this but it is a significant installation cost. City will need to prioritize. If it is recommended to council it will take about two months.
Q13. The questioner talked about the question of what was park during the synthetic turf struggle. The council at the time did not want to say that the area south of the bike path was part of the park. Council minutes from 1910 were found saying that the area south of de Maisonneuve had been bought for the purpose of a public park [by-law 221, 1910].
The mayor said that was right but where the arena is was never part of the park.
Councillor Lulham said that the land south of Western Ave was purchased from land partially owned by Mr Murray who was an alderman at the time in order to save it and make it a park. They ran into financial difficulty and the city subdivided it and sold it and this is where Westmount Park School is and where the Armoury is and where houses along Ste Catherine St are located and along Academy Road and Park Place.
The mayor said again that the arena is not part of Westmount Park, it is zoned park but is not Westmount Park.
Q14.The questioner asked if Bobby Orr played most of his hockey career on an NHL sized rink.
The mayor said that he didn’t know.
The questioner replied that the mayor had said that all arenas are NHL rinks
Councillor Lulham said that all rinks today are NHL rinks to be in hockey tournaments and part of the Hockey Federation.
The questioner said that the ipos poll predicts that in District 5 that no more than 16% of that district which is an extrapolation should be against the project. He said that as it stands now based on hard names there are more than 24.2 % of voters in District 5 would like changes to the project. It is a statistical reality.
Q15.The questioner pointed out that the petition asking for change to the arena pool project has never been presented to council. That when petitions have been presented in the past, they are usually dismissed and placed on the desk and not heard from again. He is mystified why this petition is drawing such comments from council.
The mayor said that it has been mentioned on numerous occasions and council felt it was appropriate to comment.
The questioner worries about the categorization of everybody in this debate. It is not just black or white, you are for or against, but there is a gray area. There are a lot people who are not necessarily against but there is an information gap.
The proposal is from April 2010, we are nearly a year and half later and even the update from earlier this year is called a preliminary plan. There is still a huge information gap.
He said that the question on the poll from the city asked if one generally agreed on the project..he felt that to use the word generally means that there is more information to come.
He said that there is supposed to be a final plan, a model at Victoria Hall and then a 3D model on the web-site. He would like to see the models both electronic and actual to be able to really understand. It was why he had asked at the last meeting how long would there be for comments after the plan came out. Until we see the plans how can we really know.
The mayor said that the city has not seen them either. When the city sees them, the public will see them. The city is not hiding them.
The questioner said that he hadn’t said that.
The questioner said that It is a 37 million dollar project, the biggest project in the city’s history. Our debt is going up, we are still in a global debt crisis and the questioner said that it is ironic to him that Westmount is significantly increasing its debt between what it has inherited, pension funding problems the actuarial shortfall and adding debt at this time.
He says that he is sceptical because it goes back to the synthetic turf project and a legacy of mistrust. He knows that the mayor has said that It is not the current council but there are at least four members that carried forward from that project
He said that the things that Mr Barnard is bringing up, is not just that it is in Westmount Park but the spill over effect. It is not just the increase in ice surface. There are stands for 300 people, add players coaches and staff. You are talking over 400 people. A tournament over the week-end with the traffic in and out, both people and cars, is going to change the dynamics of the park.
The mayor said that stands for 300 people means that no longer will there be 300 people standing up at games. It means that now people will watch games with more comfort. It doesn’t mean that there will be 300 more people coming to games.
The questioner said that he didn’t know how many people came to games now.
Q16. The questioner said that she generally was in favour of the project but would like to modify it, would like a nice indoor pool because Westmount YMCA is not enough.
Mayor replied that the cost of an indoor pool is very high and the operating costs are even higher. We cannot offer everything to everybody. He said that 6% of people who responded to the city’s survey said that they would like an indoor pool.
SECOND QUESTION PERIOD
Q17. Questioner said the council will receive an invitation to a meeting sponsored by the WMA, Solidarity St Henri, NDG community council and the Concertation intra-quartier with regard to the MUHC site. The topics that will be dealt with most will be access and transportation to the site and the effect on housing as there is concern about low income housing and rents going up. The bike path will be discussed. The meeting will be on Sept 27 at the Unitarian Church at 7pm. There will be a question period.
The questioner had been at a Healthy City meeting where they had discussed the fire station. All community relations with regard to the fire station have been moved to Verdun. Questioner asked what has happened with the organization? Have we lost some people out of here?
Mayor referred it to the Director General to make a note of it and find out what is happening.
Questioner said that she hears sirens all night. Do they have to have all sirens on all the time as long as they do?
The Director General said that Director Generals have asked the local fire directors to send fire department representatives to council meetings like the police.
He said that when equipment is running at speed they must have siren and lights on Firemen are now first responders which might be why there is an increase in sirens. It not necessarily because we are having a rash of fires.
Q18.The questioner read an excerpt from a Gazette article “Is Year Round Hockey Good For Kids. Hockey Canada says they are are worried about children who don’t play other sports. They are looking at ways to make sure that kids play other sports. The questioner asked if the city had considered this when the arena will have year round ice available. Is it good to encourage kids to play one sport all year?
Councillor Martin said that because the rink is open year round it doesn’t mean that it is the same kids playing year round. The real concern of the article is kids who only play hockey. The arena will offer many sports.
The fence around the soccer field is a possible safety issue because adult players regularly kick the ball out of the park. The nets are facing north south and there is a possibility of someone being hit going along the path or the bike path and there could be a serious injury. He had suggested that the nets be closed when there is no playing.
Councillor Lulham said that enforcement is required when the field is closed to stop people from jumping over the fence.
The nets are anchored and therefore hard to move.
Q19. The questioner told the mayor that she did not assume that he was against the park or that he did not have the interests of young children in mind…But there are people who believe that hockey isn’t the only sport that children need, there are other things that they need and there is something very profound at work here involving green spaces, this park and the ecological situation that we are now experiencing. She said that she didn’t know whether the mayor was cut off from the world, the world we experience when we listen to the news about the environmental situation in the world and the financial situation.
The mayor said that they shared the exact opinion of the questioner. He said that in 1985 he and Mr Shingler had increased the area of the park by one acre. [he was referring to the zoning of the park in 1985] The project that will be build soon will free up green space and he doesn’t understand the resistance to a project which will create a green space. He said again that the arena is not in the park, and that this area was always used for recreation such as tennis even before the arena was built in 1957.
The questioner said that she was talking about something much deeper. She said that probably the project would be built. There are people who are very concerned about the year round use of the park and that all she could say was that she was very sad and saddened [by what the city was doing]
Question 19 translated from French.
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